Sisyatva (Discipleship)

Sisyatva (Discipleship)

Class delivered by His Divine Grace Srila Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja
(Bhubaneswar – March 18, 1993)

One who can inculcate pure loving devotion unto you, he is a real guru.

He who has given me prema-bhakti at the lotus feet of Krishna, he is my supreme friend, he is my eternal father and mother. He is a real guru. If you tread this path of prema-bhakti then there is no fear of death, no fear of Yamaraj. No fear. So he has saved me from the clutches of Maya, clutches of Yamaraja. Those who cannot given me prema-bhakti at the lotus feet of Krishna, their guruship is partial guruship he who has made me realize this eternity eternal servitude ship is my eternal guru, real guru — he has establish my relationship with that Supreme Eternal.

“So one who is completely cent percent surrendered unto the lotus feet of such a guru, who is fortunate enough and has gotten such a guru he will get the mercy. He is really fortunate soul. But if that disciple develops duplicity and is superficial, not serious in the heart only showing outwardly, yes, yes, “Gurudeva shower your mercy on me…” just outwardly showing and speaking from the lips but inside there is a different mood. There is duplicity there. He deserves cheating, not mercy therefore sadhu guru has two things kripa and vancana, mercy and cheating. So what you deserve will come to you. And Krishna knows the heart if really in your heart you are purified. If duplicity is there then your heart is contaminated. All your activities are only for show, only outward and based on duplicity then you deserve cheating. you cannot get the mercy.

Those who are nama bhajana kari they have to follow these eight things. First thing is they should develop unflinching faith, strong faith in the words of sadhu-sastra-guru. Second he should develop greed for the association of a nama tattva vit sadhu, a sadhu which knows nama tattva he should always remain in such association. Third thing, he should be greedy to hear the Krsna Katha, Hari Katha that is coming out from the lotus lips of such a sadhu. What he hears then by the order of that sadhu guru he speaks, he does kirtana. That is sravana kirtana process. The fourth consideration is if you follow then all your anarthas will be completely destroyed, anartha nivrtti. Then sadhaka will come to the platform of nistha. Nistha means no oscillation of the mind because there are no anarthas, no unwanted things are there, no other desire is there.

This is the only thing, how to render loving service unto Krishna and give Him pleasure. it is only for His pleasure then your mind will be fixed in the holy name fixed at the lotus feet of Krishna. That is man mana bhava. That is nistha, aikantika nistha. This is the fifth thing. Then sixth thing is your mellow will be revealed to you, dasya, sakya, vatsalya, madhurya and based on that mellow on that platform you will engage constantly in bhajan,

hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare

This is called sarasika ruci. This is ruci based on that mellow. Then the seventh things is, it will be very painful for you to give up chanting the holy name even for a moment. You will feel pain, this is asakti, Strong attachment to the holy name. then you will develop bhava. Bhava comes prior to the rising of pure prema, bhava bhakti. And last is prema. When bhava matures then prema arises. That is called sthaya-rati. This are the eight things. This is the instruction of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Prabhupada Maharaja.

Thank you.

I think you have gotten something at least 30%. It is very difficult to understand. It isn’t an easy thing but it is the most important. Unless your heart is purified, unless your consciousness is purified, you cannot understand. There is no question of understanding and Kaviraj Goswami says apana sodhite for my own purification i will write. Not for my material purpose or material gain. It is for the pleasure of Guru and Gauranga. Then the heart will be purified. Then you can understand it. Otherwise you cannot understand.
Hare Hé!

18 Responses to Sisyatva (Discipleship)

  1. Murali Krsna Swami May 16, 2012 at 3:33 am #

    To Advance in Krishna Consciousness Take All Risks

    SB 8.15.29
    920422 BBSR

    Srila Gurudeva:……So here Prabhupada Maharaja says, “Of course, to advance in Krishna consciousness, one can take all risks.” …We have this common saying, ‘no risk no gain’. If you cannot take risk, how can you expect any gain. It is applicable in both material and spiritual sphere.

    …..It is also applicable for us. We have nothing anything material, na dhanaà na janaà na sundaréà kavitäà no material desires. We don’t want any material gain, but our gain is the lotus feet of Krishna. That is our gain, to serve Krishna and please Him. That is our gain. That is our ultimate goal or perfection. So we have to also take risk. ….So Bali Maharaja was the grandson of Prahlad Maharaja therefore such pure intelligence came to him. He took that risk. …. So we say one should take risk.

    ……No risk no gain. That is the ultimate gain and supreme gain to get the lotus feet of Krishna, to get Krishna. So we must take all risk. …This is very significant, very important line Prabhupada has written, “To advance in Krishna consciousness one can take all risks.” Yes, one should take such risk. Bali took that risk. Bilvamangal took that risk, gopis took that risk, and they got. There is no question of easy-going process. You have to take risk.

    In material field people are taking risk, risking their lives, why not in spiritual field to have this supreme gain, the lotus feet of Krishna? Why do you hesitate Yogeshwar, accepting easy-going process? It won’t help you. You should understand it won’t help you, can’t help you. Take the risk! At the risk of one’s life also. Yes.

    What is this life? Life is meant for serving the lotus feet of Krishna and pleasing Him and getting Him. What is the benefit? This life is not meant for material enjoyment. Take that risk. Unless one takes that risk, how can he get.

    ….This is taking risk, to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yes, he has to do. If some circumstance arises one should take such risk. Should not hesitate, ….You should understand. Take this risk.

    So many instances are there when one should take the risk. Definitely. Otherwise how can you get? That is the test, how you have developed love for Krishna. For Krishna, taking all risk. For His pleasure. Then you will get the ultimate gain, highest gain. Otherwise how can you get?

    Easy-going process is not there. If required, go to hell, let us go. Yes, that is the test how you love Krishna. You are prepared to go to hell risking one’s life.
    Thank you.

    After class.
    Gour Govinda Swami: . . . . by your wealth, by your merit, by your intelligence or strength, whatever you have, everything belongs to guru so give everything to guru.

    ….Gour Govinda Swami: You should understand,
    mükam karoti väcälaà paìgum laìghayate girim
    yat-kåpä tam ahaà vande çré-guruà déna-täriëe

    By rendering loving service to guru, if you can please guru, at any cost, risking everything, if guru is pleased automatically this knowledge comes to you. No need of self cultivation.

    Yogeshwar Das: In the case of Bhaktisiddhanta, he didn’t allow much study for his students, but at the end they became all very scholarly minded and great scholars, great bhaktas actually.

    Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. mükam karoti väcälaà we say, paìgum laìghayate, only by guru-kåpä a dumb can become an eloquent speaker on Vedas. A dumb who cannot utter a word. Dhruva, five-year-old boy not gone to any school, no education but Lord Vishnu touched His conch-shell on his forehead. When he opened his mouth offered so many prayer potent with all Vedic knowledge, tattva. How could he get? It is kåpä. So powerful.

    Yogeshwar Das: Surrendering.
    Gour Govinda Swami: Yes! It is not a fact, that won’t help you. mattaù småtir jïänam apohanaà ca “From Me comes remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness.” Paramätmä. Guru is the manifestation of paramätmä. To get the mercy of guru, the mercy of paramätmä. . . , then you can speak.

  2. Nimai Pandit dasa May 15, 2012 at 10:02 pm #

    Hari. Hari.

    Gurudeva could speak like this because he was a nama tattva vit sadhu-guru. A tattva-darshi guru.

    I will just say that our soon to be released book ‘Encountering Part Two’ has quotes from Vaisnavas who could see the glories of our Gurudeva. Some even from different sampradayas, most actually, however they could see that our Gurudeva was not of this world he was from another place, not material, but spiritual. They could see it and they were trained to see these symptoms, it is not taught so much now, but there are still those persons and personalities that can see a maha-bhagavata.
    One prominent astrologer from Orissa he said that Gurudeva was from Vaikuntha and then he said from guru-loka, I had never heard that before. From what I understand it is Sri Sampradaya terminology, but that will be explained in the book.

    I really do not think that we can find the words to truly glorify our Gurudeva.

    Nama-tattva-vit sadhu-vaisnava-mahajana Srila Gurudeva ki-jaya!


    • Murali Krsna Swami May 15, 2012 at 11:27 pm #

      Very Nice Nimai prabhu!……Srila Gurudeva has explained that, “It is the duty of the true disciple to glorify his spiritual master”, to share our faith and realizations, that we received by Gurudeva’s mercy, with simple hearted, innocent souls. And in this way faith can be distributed unlimitedly!

      Srila Gurudeva shared his love and faith and realizations of Srila Prabhupada and in this way, all could benefit immensely by his true heart’s expression for the benefit of one and all.

      “Faith begets Faith”!

      • Nimai Pandit dasa May 16, 2012 at 8:18 am #

        Gurudeva said to me personally [quoting from the Manu-samhita], ‘it is the duty of the conditioned soul to glorify the spiritual master’.

        Srila Prabhupada even said that: ‘I glorify my spiritual master and you glorify your spiritual master, that is the param-para system.’

        Glorification of Guru [of course bonafide guru, mahabhagavata-guru, nama-tattva-vit-sadhu-vaisnava-mahajana guru etc. etc.] must go on.

        All the astrologers that saw Gurudeva said he was a maha-bhagavata.
        Those that knew the ancient Vedic sciences could immediately see that Gurudeva was a maha-bhagavata.



        • Murali Krsna Swami May 16, 2012 at 1:10 pm #

          By the mercy of the Sri Guru, paramatma any sincere and simple soul, crying for the Lord’s mercy, can be made to understand Krsna’s external manifestation in the form of the bona fide spiritual master.

          That faith and intelligence comes from Krsna from within the heart for one who is serious and sincere in wanting to completely surrender to Krsna!

          SP Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.8.43 — Mayapura, October 23, 1974

          Because Krsna is situated in everyone’s heart, if you are actually eager to understand Krsna, then Krsna can understand that “This living entity is trying to understand.” So He gives a guru. He gives… Caitya… He’s caitya-guru. He is guru Himself within one’s heart, and He gives intelligence. Buddhi-yogam dadami tam yena mam upayanti te. To a sincere person, He gives the intelligence that “You accept this guru.”

          • Murali Krsna Swami May 16, 2012 at 3:59 pm #

            Srila Gurudeva and Srila Prabhupada just expressed their faith and realization in their Gurudeva. That was enough to give us faith and realization! Nothing else is required.

            Their example and glorification of their Guru and how Krsna makes that arrangement to meet is all that is required. Here is Srila Gurudeva’s…….

            Gurudeva Meeting Prabhupada- Supersoul

            890000 Gurudeva First Meeting Prabhupada
            Room conversation BBSR 1989

            At that time I was just wandering sadhu . I had put on dress of a sadhu . But I was not sadhu . So he said, “A sadhu has come. He wants to meet you Prabhupada.” He said, “All right, call him.” So immediately I went inside. Paid obeisances.

            Then Prabhupada asked me, “Who are you?” Just a few questions. I said, “I am from Orissa. My name is such and such. I have come to you Prabhupada to have a darsana, have some talk.” Then he asked me, “Have you taken sannyäsa?” Because my dress looks says so. But I am not sannyäsa. I have taken up sannyäsa. This was my intention, but he told me, “I’ll give you sannyäsa.” From his side he told me. You understand.

            Then I said, “Oh, he knows my heart. So definitely he is caitya-guru. Now he is manifested before me as guru. Otherwise how could he know my heart.” So I then and there dedicated myself. He’s my hearts attraction towards him. You understand?

            Param Brahma Das : Yes.
            Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. This is my first meeting with Prabhupada .
            Param Brahma Das: Is it always an instant thing, this hearts attraction to the guru or. . .?

            Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.

            Parambrahma Das: Sometimes it takes time to develop?

            Gour Govinda Swami: Hearts attraction, yes, because caitya-guru manifested, hearts attraction, definitely, if heart is pure. I met Prabhupada in this way, then I took shelter.

            • Raghava Pandit das May 16, 2012 at 4:15 pm #

              Thanks so much – this is very very amazing to read again….
              ys Raghava

        • Murali Krsna Swami May 16, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

          Of course we should feel grateful for and then glorify Sri Guru and Krsna for showering Their causeless mercy on us fallen conditioned souls. How they have saved us from a horrible condition and put us on the path of purification of the heart, bhakti. And How it is working, practically. We should never forget!

          This is a natural and honest, practically realized expression of what they are allowing us to understand, according to our qualification and the degree of mercy delivered upon us by them.

          Obviously there is a heaven and hell difference in our glorification of Sri Guru, according to our platform, and that of an eternal associate of Sri Sri Radha Gopinatha. We follow in their divine footsteps their example and instructions and also try our best to properly glorify our Gurudeva by our actions and words.

          Being grateful and appreciating and valuing the mercy of Sri Guru and Krsna, and then sharing that with others is very nice, a benefit for one and all.

          Krsna likes that thing!

          Srila Prabhupada Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.7.44 — Vrndavana, October 4, 1976:
          Our determination should be to serve the previous guru and acarya. Evam parampara-praptam [Bg. 4.2]. That is our determination. … Not directly Krsna.
          Because to serve Vaisnava is more than serving Krsna directly. Mad-bhakta-pujabhyadhika [SB 11.19.21]. Krsna likes that.
          He doesn’t accept anyone’s service directly. That is a gross mistake. You have to serve the servant of Krsna, tad bhrtya dasa-dasa-dasanudasah [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. That is the way. Not directly.

          Srila Prabhupada; SB 1.2.16 Purport:
          By serving the servant of God, one can please God more than by directly serving the Lord. The Lord is more pleased when He sees that His servants are properly respected because such servants risk everything for the service of the Lord and are so are very dear to the Lord.
          The Lord declares in the Bhagavad-gétä (18.69) that no one is dearer to Him than one who risks everything to preach His glory. By serving the servants of the Lord, one gradually gets the quality of such servants, and thus one becomes qualified to hear the glories of God.
          The eagerness to hear about God is the first qualification of a devotee eligible for entering the kingdom of God.

          Srila Gurudeva and Srila Prabhupada Ki Jai!

          MK Swami

    • Murali Krsna Swami May 16, 2012 at 12:27 am #

      Regarding speaking or preaching:

      I heard and was taught by Srila Gurudeva that if and when one is authorized and instructed by that Sri Guru in parampara to preach, then we should first put into practice what we have heard and realized, and then preach. Preach first for your own purification and then for the pleasure of Sri Guru and Gauranga, to help the people come to the line of bhakti.

      What should we preach?, I asked Srila Gurudeva, and he said, “Exactly what you have heard from your Guru Maharaja. Don’t add anything and don’t subtract anything!”. Of course Srila Prabhupada and all Acaryas in the line have said and say the same thing. This is parampara., “As It Is”

      Srila Gurudeva has taught his preachers to speak boldly, fearlessly and without any compromise, for the 2 reasons previously mentioned above.

      We must pray constantly for the qualification to be able to follow the teachings and instruction and then for the ability to preach about the nature of the absolute truth, tattva vicar.

      Srila Gurudeva said that, “If you don’t practice what you have heard from Guru, you have no right to preach!”. If our service is to preach and have been instructed to do so, then we are very much forced to cry for the mercy and blessings required to become qualified to be able to practice and preach what our Gurudeva has given us.

      This really is Srila Gurudeva’s mercy on us. He is forcing us to do what is required, in order to have the “right to preach” or the potency to preach what we have so mercifully been given. Srila Gurudeva has said many times that, “It is not theoretical Baba!……Blank fire only!”, etc.

      Even though we may not be so exalted devotees, still we have to follow the instructions and strive to become qualified so that we can properly represent our Gurudeva and his teachings. And, so that our words may have a good effect on ourselves, (by remembering what we heard from Gurudeva) and by being able to share that with others.

      By speaking about Srila Gurudeva and practicing and repeating his instructions, we are always with him. We will be able to always feel his presence. With that mercy and blessings, all things are possible. That faith we must have.

      Thank you.

      Your servant,
      Murali Krsna Swami

      • Murali Krsna Swami May 16, 2012 at 2:52 am #

        —Srila Prabhupada;
        Room Conversation, Fiji, 2 May 1976.

        Guru-kripa Das: What if sometimes a disciple goes to preach, but he’s not preaching in the same spirit as his spiritual master?

        Srila Prabhupada: Therefore he is not to preach. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says, janma särthaka kari’ kara para-upakära: “Go and do good to others. But first of all do good to yourself” [Cc. ädi 9.41]. First of all you become a real preacher. Then go to preach. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu never sent neophytes to preach.

        For neophytes, preaching is not their business. Neophytes should stick to the worship of the deity in the temple. And those who have understood the philosophy, and applied the philosophy in their life, they should go for preaching. Otherwise one will preach wrongly … and it will stop. … Mahaprabhu does not say that, “You remain a rascal and go to preach.” No. janma särthaka kari — “Your first business is that you make your life perfect. Then go to preach. Perfect means you learn how to obey My orders, ämära äjïäya.” That is perfection.

        If you are actually, perfectly carrying out the orders of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, then you are preaching. Otherwise you will do wrongly and mislead. Don’t do that! andhä yathändhair upanéyamänäù — If you remain blind, don’t try to lead other blind men [Bhäg. 7.5.31]. That is misleading. First of all open your eyes. Everything is there. Nobody should do anything whimsically. If you do whimsically, concocting, it will be a failure. It will not be effective.

        Guru-kripa Das: Even though one may get many followers, that is not…

        Srila Prabhupada: Many? Many followers… The philosophy that you present must be followed by everyone. That is wanted. You have got, say, ten thousand followers. That does not mean success. Everyone has got some followers. But what kind of followers do they have?… There are many Christians. If there is a Christian fair many millions will come. But what is their quality? Their quality is all meat-eaters. But Christian means he should not kill. Where is the Christian?

        So we have to test by the quality of the followers. Not the number of followers, but the quality of the followers. My Guru Maharaja used to say, “If I can get at least one quality disciple, then all of my labor will be a success.” He was saying like that, quality, not quantity. If one is impressed by quantity then he is a goru [cow].

        …From the very beginning my strictures are there: “You have to follow this.” Quality. If I had said, “No, you can do like Vivekananda [says]. You can do whatever you like.” then I think the quantity would have been very, very big. But I don’t say that. I make him promise before the fire, before the deity, before guru.

        One moon is taken into account. Who takes account of the millions of stars? ekaç candras tamo hanti na ca tärä sahasraçaù [from Chanakya Pandit’s Néti Çästra]. Quality. So we should be quality devotee, not quantity devotee.

    • Murali Krsna Swami May 16, 2012 at 5:48 pm #

      My brother Nimai…..Don’t mind but, who really cares what some, “astrologers” say?……

      We don’t know these people or where they are coming from, or what is their motivation or intentions for doing or saying anything…..

      We should just put our faith in Sri Guru Paramatma, Krsna and let them guide us and give us the necessary intelligence and faith.

      That intelligence and faith will come automatically to one who sincerely and seriously wants to completely surrender to Krsna!

      And, if we share our own practical revelation and faith of that manifestation of Sri Guru, to others, that will be very effective.

      Srila Gurudeva said, “that this Guru tattva is the same as paramatma tattva and although this is mentioned in many places in the sastra, still, until it is revealed to you by the mercy of Krsna and Sri Guru, no one will ever understand it, practically.

      This is what Srila Gurudeva and Srila Prabhupada and all acaryas emphasize by their own practical examples and in their preaching on this matter.

      We should do exactly the same thing! This is how others can begin to understand Sri Guru and his external manifestaion, in the form of the spiritual master. Without the merciful intelligence and faith given by Krsna and His bona fide and authorized agent, Sri Guru, No other way can this be revealed.

  3. Murali Krsna Swami May 15, 2012 at 5:29 pm #

    Nice instructions from Srila Gurudeva! Thank you!

    “….But if that disciple develops duplicity and is superficial, not serious in the heart only showing outwardly, yes, yes, “Gurudeva shower your mercy on me…” just outwardly showing and speaking from the lips but inside there is a different mood. There is duplicity there. He deserves cheating, not mercy……
    ….If duplicity is there then your heart is contaminated. All your activities are only for show, only outward and based on duplicity then you deserve cheating. you cannot get the mercy.”

    How many times have we heard our Gurudeva say, “Not just from the lips!”? Srila Gurudeva taught us that, “First deserve and then desire”.

    One who tries his best to follow the instructions and serve in the mission of our spiritual master, deserves mercy! Otherwise not!……Without that mercy, then what is the value of our so- called glorification?…..As Gurudeva has said many many times, “Only from the lips Baba, Only from the lips!”.

    Hare Krsna!

    Your servant,
    MK Swami

    • Murali Krsna Swami May 15, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

      Sorry everyone. I just noticed that maybe I am sending to many posts.
      I get a little fired up when talking about Srila Gurudeva and his mission.

      If I have offended anyone, please forgive me. Srila Gurudeva has taught that we should preach first for our own purification and for the pleasure of Sri Guru and Gauranga.

      I am trying to preach to myself and purify myself by remembering all of these teachings and instructions of Srila Gurudeva. Please don’t mind too much.

      Your servant,

      • Raghava Pandit das May 15, 2012 at 7:53 pm #

        Pranams Maharaja, I am quite appreciating your comments here though … as they say, Those who matter don’t mind, and does who mind, don’t matter …

        ys Raghava

        • Murali Krsna Swami May 15, 2012 at 11:01 pm #

          Thank you for the encouragement my brothers. I just want to make sure
          that I am presenting and representing in a pleasing way, especially to you.

          And, that you will be happy with me and pray to Srila Gurudeva for me, that I may one day become a fit instrument to loving serve our Guru Maharaja.

          If one day we could all work together for Srila Gurudeva’s pleasure and glory, that would be just, “The Icing on the Cake”!

          I am waiting and hoping and praying for that day! As I am sure, that many of you are also doing.

          Your servant,
          Murali Krsna Swami

        • Murali Krsna Swami May 15, 2012 at 11:12 pm #

          My dear brother Raghava. Very wise words indeed. Thank you.

          I see that you are not only an artist, but a nice poet as well!

          Gaura Haribol!


          • Raghava Pandit das May 15, 2012 at 11:24 pm #

            of sorts

      • TVP May 15, 2012 at 9:02 pm #

        We are very happy to have the interaction on the website.
        Our aim is to see Srila Gurudeva glorified through this medium all over the (three) world(s).
        Sadhu, sadhu!

        Your lowly servants,


Dedicated to the Life and Teachings of Srila Gour Govinda Swami